Chapters/Indigo

Transcript of Interview with Christine Whelan, Regional Directors for ChaptersIndigo in the Edmonton Area, 3:00 PM at the SugarBowl on 109 Street and 89 Avenue. Interview conducted by Becky Halliday, Andrea Hasenbank and Jodi Goebel. Certain sections of the interview may be missing because the tape cut out at the end of one side. In this case, information is filled in using notes taken during the interview.

Becky: Thank-you very much for meeting with us.

Christine: Oh, no problem. It sounds like an interesting study, so…

Jodi: OK, I guess we're just gonna dive right in. Do you have any questions about the project first?

Christine: Um, just in general, if you want to tell me a little bit about it.

Jodi: OK, so we're working for Gary Kelly, he's a professor at the University of Alberta, and he has a Canadian Research Chair and has used it to start a centre for Popular Print. And, so, you know what? [Reaches into folder.] I actually have something in here that will make it sound a lot more like I know what I'm talking about. So the Centre for Popular Print has quite a few projects. He's working on a history of Popular Print culture, and it's a 9-volume… production… to be published by Oxford University Press, and then we're working on a Cityprint project. So they're a series of studies of Popular Print in cities around the world, so obviously we're working on Edmonton. And they've got the Bologna Project, which is in planning, and the Fez project, which is a possibility, and the Izmir project which is in discussion [Christine laughs] so we're—we're not just here for the fun of it! And then already up and running is the Streetprint Database, so right now we have, a sort of, I think right now it has Revolutionary and Romantic Britain, um Popular Print, so it's older stuff that we actually used in a course that we took [at the U of A] and it's just extending and expanding as we go. And, what we're working on is a bunch of smaller projects on Popular Print in Edmonton.

Christine: Okay.

Jodi: So I'm doing Marketing and Distribution since I'm actually a Business, 'non-English' student and then, yeah, these girls have their own projects.

Andrea: I'm working on—I'm working on genres so I'm trying to come up with a taxonomy of 90 different classifications of Popular Literature so I'm kind of talking about definitions, about how they relate to each other—

Christine: Okay.

Andrea: what people go for, how they separate. Becky's got a more specific—

Becky: I've got Romance and Erotica! [Christine laughs.] Paperback fiction and whatnot.

Christine: I know Jasmine, our Regional Manager, forwarded the e-mail to me saying 'I thought you'd be more qualified for this!' and I'm just like 'What are you implying?!' [All laugh.]

Becky: Yeah, it was really nice. I called—I was calling up individual store managers, and Colin at West Ed was nice enough to say 'You want to talk to Jasmine,' and she was nice enough to say—

Christine: Yeah.

Becky: So it was quite nice to get someone who knows about all the stores in Edmonton and whatnot and has a broader […]

Christine: Yeah.

Jodi: How did Harry Potter go?

Christine: [Laughs.] I'm still recovering.

Jodi: I have two friends who were working at […] on Friday night.

Christine: At the South Point Chapters?

Jodi: Yeah.

Christine: Yeah, I worked it at the West End store.

Jodi: OK.

Christine: And, yeah, we had, I would say six or seven hundred people in the store. In costume and hyped up, and oh man.

Becky: Little kids up way past their bedtime.

Christine: Exactly. Hopped up on sugar 'cause you're feeding them little sugary snacks, and we're sending them home with their parents.

Andrea: Oh, that's funny. The movie was like that too—on the opening weekend?

Other girls: Yeah, yeah.

Andrea: Everywhere.

Christine: I couldn't believe the costumes—how many kids came all dressed up in their little Hogwarts uniforms.

Becky: It's like Christmas and Hallowe'en.

Christine: Uh-huh.

Becky: I liked the invitations that you guys had at the West Ed store. I saw a little kid asking about the party and the guy—the cashier—said 'Do you have your invitation?' and the kid said 'No! There's one for me?' [Laughter.]

Christine: I know, and I guess, yeah, that afternoon they had kids that were coming in, like, parents going—in a panic—'I hear the party is full up—that no more people can come to the party!' We're like 'No!' [Laughter.] And they were so panicked—'Oh, I wanna come to the party!' I think they probably ran out of the invitations or something and they took that to mean 'No More Kids.' [Laughter.]

Other girls: Oh no!

Jodi: That's so bad. Those kids are so cute… I guess I'll get started. I have some really really general questions. Um, I know that Chapters is part of Indigo, and I'm assuming that Indigo is sort of like the Mother Company.

Christine: That's the, yeah, that's the parent company name, and then we have the different brands. We have Indigo, Chapters, as well as Coles and SmithBooks are all under the same…

Jodi: Right, right. Um, how would you place Chapters in—like, is there a different brand name for each of the four categories or is it all sort of similar except for logo and that kind of stuff?

Christine: Um, Chapters and Indigo operate pretty similarly…

Jodi: Right.

Christine: Um, they—I think Indigo—like at one time the two were separate companies, and I think Indigo was branded to be sort of a bit more upscale than Chapters. They had—and they were not just books, they were books, gifts, and music products all under one roof which Chapters has [standed?] into, but that wasn't the original focus.

Becky: I noticed on the Internet they were saying they also were the first to have a café, which I didn't realize because Chapters often has Starbucks.

Christine: Yeah, I don't think that's true actually. [Laughs.] They, uh—because Chapters, the first Chapters opened before the first Indigo, and every Chapters has a Starbucks. I think they might mean, like, a store-run—because the cafes at Indigo are run by the store rather than a separately-branded—

Becky: OK.

Christine: So that might be what they're saying—Yeah, no that's not true! [Laughs.]

Jodi: Um, and, I'm assuming that Chapters' sort of goal is to provide convenience, like, a one-stop shop and wide selection and that kind of stuff…

Christine: Yeah. Um, well, I would say the Coles—we were just talking about Chapters and Indigo—the Coles and SmithBooks stores also operate about the same as each other because they merged a long time ago—

Jodi: Yeah.

Christine: And have just sort of merged their operations, and they're really the pop-in convenient place where you go looking for the newest […] whereas I think the Chapters and Indigo try to position themselves as more of a 'We have everything that you're looking for.'

Becky: They're at the airport too and everything.

Christine: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, and so, and I actually came from—I started with Coles many years ago, and so I've worked in the mall format as well as the large format, and they're really very different.

Jodi: Okay. So then in terms of that, what would you say is Chapters/Indigo's target customer, so, in terms of who you're aiming for—demographic?

Christine: I think Chapters and Indigo aim for, um, they've always said they should aim for an 'educated' demographic. They don't—when they're looking to build stores they don't look so much at levels of income, um, but they look at levels of education, because that is who their core market is.

Jodi: Okay, so then in that case it's probably gonna be—probably more of the older—so—

Christine: Yeah, it tends to be boomer, sort of middle-class, um, although each store really has its own market, like the Whyte Avenue store is really an entirely different environment from the suburban stores, and—but yeah, overall I think the probably middle to upper-middle-class is the target demographic. People with disposable income.

Andrea: Yeah.

Jodi: Everyone's target market! [Laughter.]

Andrea: OK then, so how is this reflected in what you would purchase? I mean, you want to be aiming for these kinds of things so what do you look for? Like, what do you keep in mind when you're purchasing?

Christine: Um, gosh. Again, it's really different at a Chapters store than it is at a Coles store. Um, but at Chapters, because we have really large inventories, we're able to buy an awful lot of stuff, and, most of the, like, the buying of new titles is done out of Toronto, they're the ones that meet with the publisher reps and go through the catalogues and make the initial buys, and then all of the reordering is done at the store level. And so generally what we do at the store level is about, um, looking at its historic sales. And the only thing—I do do some buying but only of regional titles, like books specifically about Edmonton or Alberta. Or local authors, things like that. But, um, yeah, I think mostly they make most of their purchasing decisions on how the publisher is going to be promoting the book and, yeah, what kind of media they can expect from it, and the overall package—what it looks like, whether it fills a niche—something different, you know. But, especially for Chapters, they buy a really big chunk of what is put out by the major publishers. So, the Coles stores also—I think their inventory tends to be newer stuff, so they, they'll get bought a lot of the brand new stuff, but they don't hold much backlist in stock.

Jodi: OK, um, do you buy your books directly from the publishers? Or do you go through a national distributor?

Christine: No, we buy them from the publishers.

Jodi: OK.

Christine: Some of our books are warehoused, um, at our distribution centres. They'll buy huge quantities[…]

Becky: And that's where people can order online and whatnot?

Christine: Yeah, most of what you can order online is either—well most of it is either warehoused at our distribution centre or the online stuff can come through Ingraham [sp?] out of the states. That's the big wholesaler. But the stores don't generally order much from Ingraham. They only use them as an order-on-demand.

Jodi: Right.

Becky: So it's the managers of the stores that are responsible for doing the reordering—

Christine: Actually, every store in the large format has a replenisher which, basically that's their whole job is they spend about 24 hours a week doing the ordering, and then depending on the particular store they might have other duties outside of that. And in the mall stores though it's usually the manager and assistant manager that do the ordering there.

Becky: Thank-you. I was really wondering about that because I know—I've had a couple of managers make offhand comments to me about [what they are ordering]. At the same time, I know that you're involved in the buying at a much higher level.

Christine. Yeah. Essentially, every store in the large format has a replenisher that does the ordering for them, and then I'm the Regional Replenishment Manager so I'm—I look after supervising those replenishers in the stores as well as doing buying of local titles.

Jodi: So how much of that is an automated system?

Christine: Um, almost none of it now. They did try automatic replenishment which really was—no one was happy with it.

Jodi: Oh no…

Christine: It just couldn't, couldn't do what a person could do looking at it. It would essentially automatically reorder everything that you sell, and some of it, if, you know, if it sat on your shelf for a year, you probably don't want it to come back. You're glad it's gone, and good riddance to that, you know? And so they—they got rid of that system and pretty much everything is store—is actually done by a person either at head office—when they're buying the new titles they have, like, grids that they fit the stores into so they'll say, OK this book we'll buy, you know, 20 for A stores, 15 for B stores, and they just sort of grid it out like that.

Jodi: Do you have any information on, like, the selling expectations for different kinds of books, like hardcover, or trade paperback, or mass market paperback. 'Cause I know that in general mass market paperback, like, the shelf life is expected to be really really short—

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, I don't have any data on that. I wonder if I could come up with something. Um, well it's actually—mass market and hardcover both have really short shelf lives[…] the hardcover usually anywhere from nine months to a year it comes to a paperback, after which no one wants the hardcover—it gets sent back to the publisher, and they usually remainder it, and it goes onto our sale table. But, uh, and the same thing with mass market, although mass market can end up having a long lifespan in the store, like if you think of something like John Grisham or whatever, we carry him in mass market always and—but they have a real spike in sales in a way trade paperbacks don't usually sell. They'll come in and you'll sell through, you know, half of your order in the first two weeks and then it just tapers right off because, I think the mass market buyer is really interested in the newest, hottest thing. They go for the big pile and, uh, you know, then something else comes along…

Jodi: Well, there are so many titles too, you have to go for the newest otherwise you'd never be able to pick!

Christine: Yeah.

Becky: It's interesting to see, like, I was looking at some figures on the Romance—time Romance novels spend on the Bestseller list, and they can be, like,  #1 but only for two or three weeks at all.

Christine: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there—but then, at the same time, there's a lot of Romance novels that are in our core list like, we have a list of about 1,800 to 2,000 books for a large-format store that are expected to always be in stock.

Jodi: OK.

Christine: Um, and there's a lot of Romance novels, usually by the really big-name authors, your Nora Roberts—

Becky: Yeah.

Christine: Your, uh, Fern Michaels, like, uh, you know, I can't even think of the big […] um, that—it's surprising that they continue to sell. But I think those are the books that are marketed differently by the publishers, too. Like, they're not the—some of these series titles.

Becky: They're not the Harlequins. Even though [she probably read?] a Harlequin, they're probably more of the New York Times Bestselling ones.

Christine: Well Harlequin came out, probably, gosh, it's got to be about seven or eight years ago now, with an imprint called MIRA that is designed to take away the Harlequin stigma of 'It's only there for a month and then it's gone.' Um, and those are the ones that they expect to continue reorders on. They'll publish them under MIRA.

Andrea: And they look different too.

Christine: Yeah.

Andrea: They don't look like the sterilized format—they look more like mainstream fiction.

Christine: Exactly. And they're usually thicker, um, sort of the more substantial books.

Andrea: OK, well, you mentioned earlier—I'm just gonna backtrack a little bit—that—regarding regional things and local things—that you yourself are responsible for ordering, so how do you identify when there is a niche to be filled? When there's something that people want or something that's missing…

Christine: Usually, um, it's just based on personal experience, like the publishers—a lot of the stuff that's presented to me on the local level is self-published, um, or very tiny distributors. And, um, I just—you know—evaluate whether or not I've ever seen a book like it before, and for the most part, I have, and it's—it's a lot of hassle and expense to order from self-publish distributors so it really has to be something quite special to, to take on. Almost never fiction. Like, I can't even really remember a time when I bought a fiction title. Um, but, and it's usually books of a…like, either nature or History of Alberta, things like that.

Becky: Gardening books or something like that?

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, and like a lot of Rocky Mountain stuff. But, um, yeah, pretty much never anything in fiction. And they almost never publish in mass market format—people who are self-publishing. Like, awhile back there was a publisher in Edmonton called Commonwealth Books that was a, I can't remember, there's a name for what they do, is basically you pay them to publish your book. Like you pay them 3,000 dollars I think it was.

Jodi: [Vanity Press?]

Christine: Vanity Press, that's exactly it. And, uh, they would print your book, and you know it would—and it even had sales reps that would come around, but you'd totally have to put a financial stake in it, and for awhile there we would get a lot of really awful fiction [Laughter.] presented to us from them, but, uh, they went out of business, probably, six or seven years ago now. And there hasn't been anyone else that's—

Becky: Brave enough to do that?

Christine: Gone into that market, yeah. [Laughs.]

Jodi: Um, in terms of the business goals that the company makes—obviously their profit—do you have secondary goals in terms of, like, quality or sales revenue or market shares that you're working towards right now?

Christine: Um, yeah, there are—I know, as well as sales goals, they've got a profitability target right now. Um, now if I could remember there was… we just had a meeting about this not too long ago, and I think that they were saying our net margin at the end was about 6% or something and they'd like to see that up to about, it was about double that to 15 or something. Um, because books traditionally have operated on a really tiny margin—even hearing that it was 6, I was like, 'Gee, I remember when it was, like, 4!' [Laughs.] But, um, I know, like they were saying that Barnes & Noble in the States has about a 15 or something percent. And I hope I got my numbers right, but it was—I know it was about double what it is right now.

Jodi: Wow, that's crazy.

Christine: Um, but, so that's a target.

Andrea: [Would you say it's] more on moving book volumes or increasing book prices?

Christine: Um, I don't think that it's increasing prices—that's actually something that, um, to us the lower price point is almost better, like if, you know, when publishers put up their price it can often hurt business. Um, yeah, it's definitely, I know there's been a push to, yeah, I guess another goal has been turnover. That your product should turn, um, I think right now it's turning, we're turning, on average at about 1.8 or 1.9 times a year, so each book sells not quite twice in a year on average, and I think they want something like a 2.5 down the road.

Andrea: OK.

Jodi: Um, and something like [in the industry?] what is popular right now, like, in the big books right now, like, big books sort of format books or—

Christine: Like what are they—I'm not sure I understand.

Jodi: Like industry trends in terms of your sort of bookstore like the all new books, the all, like, the magazines and that kind of stuff in terms of that target?

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Jodi: Have you identified any industry trends that are causing you to change things?

Christine: Um—

Jodi: Sorry, that didn't come out right at all. I know what I'm trying to say in my head but it's not gonna come out properly.

Andrea: Do you mean like compared to the stores that sell remnants and that kind?

Christine: Right.

Jodi: Yeah, just what do you feel—

Christine: Just overall.

Jodi: What do you feel is the competition and what do you feel is changing in the book industry… I know that even things like Harry Potter have sort of changed the book industry just because so many more people are reading and—

Christine: Yeah.

Jodi: Can you imagine kids reading a book that is 800 pages?

Christine: Yeah.

Jodi: Like it's baffling.

Christine: Well yeah and that's been an interesting thing for the industry because everyone is carrying that book, like Mac's stores are selling it. Which is really strange and that was strange because I was wondering about—I couldn't even predict how the sales were gonna go on this one because everybody was stocking it and I thought, you know—

Jodi: Well, like, we have two copies in our house. I don't understand why. But, like, everyone, everyone owns Harry Potter. Everyone.

Christine: Yeah.

Jodi: It's such a phenomenon for sure.

Christine: But, I don't know, like I've noticed that publishers, um, one of the things that's been interesting is the rise of the trade paperback format. Like, when—I started with Coles about 11 and a half years ago and almost nothing came out in trade. It—everything went—some Nonfiction would. And that was it. It would go straight to trade. And you would never see something go from Hardcover to trade paperback. It would go Hardcover to mass market or come straight out in trade paperback, and I think that's a big thing that the publishers—

Andrea: I like it.

Christine: Are trying to push. You know, because it raises their prices, there's more margin in it, and, uh, the returns are better. 'Cause I don't know if you know about, um, mass market paperbacks—the way that they're returned to the publishers is like the cover [gestures ripping a cover off a book].

Jodi: Ripped off.

Christine: Yeah. And, uh, so because there's just nothing in it for the publisher to process returns on something of that low price point and generally low quality, like they're not designed to last through repeated [Laughs.] you know, in several stores and then returned and so with the trade paperback they get their product back and usually experience much lower return rates—

Jodi: Oh, OK.

Christine: Than you would on mass market because it's that much harder to—you know you actually have to [pay the rates?] and, you know, there's more involved. Whereas I think a lot of stores would just say 'Oh yeah. Just strip it.' You know?

Becky: I'm intrigued, though. I was interviewing Julio at The Book Outlet, West Edmonton Mall—

Christine: Mm! I used to work for Julio.

Becky: Yeah?

Christine: Yeah, he used to be the Coles Regional Manager.

Becky: Oh. Yeah, he's so nice. I had the best interview with him on Friday. He, he—

Christine: Yeah, he knows the business. He really knows the business.

Becky: Knows so much. It was interesting, I just wandered into his store. I thought he might be interesting to talk to. I had no idea he—

Christine: Yeah.

Becky: Knew the business that well.

Christine: Yeah, and he used to run the U of A Bookstore before he went to The Book Outlet.

Jodi: Is that the one upstairs by Sears?

Becky: It's by Sears, yeah.

Christine: They've got good deals in there.

Jodi: I was walking past there and, like, $1.99!

Christine: He's got lots of good connections to get that kind of deal.

Jodi: Yeah, I can imagine.

Becky: But he can't sell paperbacks because he's getting—or he's, most of the time he's getting returns and everything and then buying them cheaper from the publishers.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah.

Becky: He can sell them—he was saying, you know, if you want to wait 6 weeks, I'll get your book.

Christine: Interesting. [Laughs.]

Becky: That's the way he's doing it, but he can't sell paperbacks because of the—

Christine: Yeah, because everything just gets stripped. Yeah.

Becky: He was telling me about Harlequin's 50%—their turnover rate? Or, sorry, the return rate is at least 50% he said?

Christine: At least.

Jodi: Oh yeah.

Christine: I would say so. Yeah.

Becky: But they don't care.

Christine: Um, no. Because they're just not into—essentially, Harlequin markets itself and positions itself almost like a magazine. That, uh, like the books actually have a month on them, so everything that's in the store right now says June on the spine just like a magazine so that when you come across it later you know—

Jodi: Yeah.

Christine: That you can return it. And, uh, yeah, I think it's the same with the magazine business. It, uh, you know they expect half to be returned.

Jodi: Well the book industry in general is so inefficient.

Christine: Oh yeah. [Laughs.] Yeah, it's really interesting 'cause, you know, even with all the new technology, sure we all have computers and scanners and stuff, but the business itself, the way it's designed, probably hasn't changed in a hundred years, really. Like—

Jodi: Like, that's mostly what I've been reading about so far and it's like 'Oh yeah, we really could use some changes!' There's nothing coming. And then you'll read about the same—about the same subject written 40 years later—

Christine: Yeah.

Jodi: And they'll say the same thing.

Christine: Exact, yeah, it's, you know, turnaround time on orders can still be—that's why we've brought a lot of stuff into our distribution centre so that we can have it—if you order it you can have it in, depending on what day you order it, a week to ten days and in the store. Whereas if you order it from a publisher, you know, a month. We'll get it in a month. Maybe. Maybe. And then it might be out of print or something, and, you know, it might not ever come. And that's just kind of the way it works. [Laughs.] Tell us if it's not coming! Like, yeah.

Jodi: I—I don't know if this is true. I just seem to have noticed more ads lately, but, publishers seem to be trying more to gain, like, brand loyalty to a publisher lately, and—

Christine: Mm!

Jodi: I've been seeing ads, even in like Glamour magazine, which is not a literary magazine by any means, but for, like, something like Avon books or something saying all their cover titles and really trying to push, like, you need an Avon book if you purchase these or, like, 'Every good bag deserves a book,' I think it was [Christine laughs.] and, like, just—do you—are you guys encouraging that as well like or do you have, like, on the website, right now, 30% off Penguin Paperbacks and 20% off Eyewitness Guides—are those things that you, like, combine with the publisher for?

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And that's, you know, probably less to do with our goal in marketing as the publisher.

Jodi: Right.

Christine: The publisher's willingness to—usually when you see promotions like that the publisher is splitting in on the discount with us so if we're taking, you know, a 20% hit on it they're giving out something […] on the margin for that product. And uh so whoever we can get it from and, uh, but some, yeah, we've actually had a lot more of that lately too with—because all the publishers have co-op dollars to spend. Although the ones on discounting I think come out of a different pool. But the publishers also pay for uh priority placement in the stores. And uh and so this is just sort of an extension of that. I've noticed it just in the last probably year or so that they've started doing more of that, like—

Jodi: It seems like it's everywhere now like 'This is our publishing house.' Not 'This is our title.'

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. I've never really thought of that. Like I was just thinking of it in terms of that—they're finding a new way to use their co-op dollars. But, uh—

Jodi: I forgot what I was going to ask.

Becky: Can I ask you a little bit more specifically about Harlequin and everything?

Jodi: Yeah.

Christine: Oh, of course.

Becky: Um, yeah. Julio's just been telling me about Harlequin coming in and setting up their own racks and stuff like that. I've noticed some of the stores in Edmonton have more series paperbacks in the Romance section than other ones do. Is—are the romance companies still trying to come in and really market—

Christine: They don't come in and do the racks anymore.

Becky: No?

Christine: No.

Becky: No racks?

Christine: No, they used to. I know the Coles that I started at that's long-closed now—

the Capilano Mall one—used to actually have special—it was a built-in spinner rack that was built in to the wall fixture that—it all got merchandised on too and it was branded with Harlequin at the top. But no, we don't see the reps anymore. We get some things, like we'll get catalogues and little Romance… They do this really interesting catalogue—I was looking for one and I haven't had it lately—but it's sort of a catalogue for men crossed with a little glossy magazine with statistics about love and romance and things like that…

Becky: Yeah.

Christine: It's really funny. [Laughs.] But no, they don't come in anymore. I do remember when they used to, but, I don't know, some—some stores may still have that but… we don't. We just get our 2 shipments a month. 'Cause you always get them—half of them come mid-month and half of them come and the end of the month. And, um, it's just always out with the old, in with the new! Everything from last month is gone and—

Becky: Do you try and stock only the newer titles?

Christine: Yeah. Usually, like, well definitely with all of the numbered series stuff. When the next one comes, the old one's gone.

Becky: OK.

Christine: Um, with the things that aren't dated or in a specific series, we might hold on to them a little bit longer for, say, 3 months or so. And then, like, the MIRA titles are different. We'll keep them as long as they're selling. But, um, some of the other—like, you know, they'll put out their little Special Edition ones that are usually anthology-style and things like that. They usually, yeah, 3 months would be the longest shelf-life that they'd see.

Becky: OK, thank-you. Are you trying to put a limit on the amount of series that you have just in terms of—like you were saying you're—you're going for a more educated demographic. Well, not—just—

Christine: Yeah.

Becky: To address the stigma of—of Popular Romance and things like that.

Christine: Yeah. I don't think—I think it's—it's really about what sells. The stores that you see with really big Romance selections—it's because that's their market. And most of the large-format stores don't do a really big business in Harlequin. I know Whyte Avenue almost never sells any. Like, you know. It's a—it's a rare month. So they're on the absolute minimum side.

Becky: Yeah, they have a lot more of the Bestseller ones.

Christine: Yeah. And, um—

Andrea: 3 racks.

Becky: Yeah, oh, they have tons but not a lot of series at all.

Christine: Yeah. No, and even Romance as a whole isn't a really good category at that store. But the ones that are in malls, like Sherwood Park.  [Tape cuts out.]

END RECORDING PART 1.

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT OF RECORDING PART 2:

Christine: [On the subject of genre differentiation…] But, uh, it was probably about 2, 2 ½ years ago that we did a big project to try and improve the flow in all the stores and to somewhat standardize what is together in certain locations. So if you go into all the stores, you'll find that, um, that the Cooking, the Gardening, the Home Improvement, those are all together. You'll find Sports and Humour and Transportation all together. And, um, I mean where they're placed in a particular store we tried to standardize as much as we could, but, with different layouts, it was sometimes less effective. But, um, yeah, and we're actually in the midst—this summer we're doing another small remerchandising project where—but that one's more about reallotting the space that certain departments have, like finding—

Andrea: Which is interesting too because Western is getting smaller and smaller but Mystery is getting bigger and bigger. Self-help is getting bigger and bigger.

Christine: Yup. That's the real area that they were focusing on is the Health and Well-Being, so the Health, the Self-help, the Parenting. Um, they're doing a whole rethink on that, adding new subclasses for, you know, things that have risen over the years. Like I think there's going to be a Pilates subclass for the Exercise.

Becky: Oh wow.

Christine: Because, you know, and, like, Feng Shui in the homes, because things have really sprung up in those areas. And, but, throughout the whole store they're planning to do a sort of right-sizing of inventory—really looking at, you know, do we need to carry

200 different Literary Criticism books when nobody really buys them? And [Laughter.] things like that. So that's also—

Jodi: I love that section. [Laughter.]

Becky: Yeah, my roommate has his own Literary Theory bookstore in our basement.

Christine: Yeah, they're getting smaller everywhere.

Andrea: Who could I talk to more specifically about this reallottment? Is there someone who could explain to you the whole… master plan?

Jodi: Even the designers—they're probably out of Toronto.

Christine: Yeah, they don't, um, yeah, they send us the Floor Plans down. Um, although at the store level we do get to have a lot of input on it. But, um, yeah I know part of the plan is to integrate, like, non-book products into the gift sections so we'll have, you know, the yoga books here, and then we'll have a section of yoga videos and exercise mats and things like that. And in the, you know, maybe in the cooking section, and then we'll have a little—a little gift section of, you know, we carry all those fancy little barbecue sauces and odd things like that—all those picks and things like that. But really sort of mixing that product in with its area of interest.

Andrea: Kind of a tie-in.

Christine: Yeah. Exactly.

Andrea: I saw a lot of media tie-ins too. Just based on it—so it's not just enough to have a book about something. It's the Buffy the Vampire Slayer book about this. So it's not just a cookbook but The Soprano Family cookbook.

Becky: I just about laughed. There was a Buffy the Vampire Slayer guide, and then in tiny print at the bottom: 'This book is neither endorsed nor approved by anyone having to do with Buffy the Vampire Slayer or its affiliates…' or something like that. [Laughter.]

Jodi: I was shocked and appalled to see the Buffy section on the website right now? Not because I have anything against Buffy, but because of—just that my friends have become obsessed with Buffy over the past two weeks. And I swear to God every time that I see them, they insist on watching Buffy on DVD. And they've kept me up til 3 and 4:00 in the morning on more than one occasion in the past two weeks watching Buffy. While I fall asleep on the couch waiting for a ride home and wishing that I had driven myself… [Laughter.]

Becky: Yeah, my guy roommate has all of the Buffy DVDs and he's saying 'It's never too late to become a convert.' I've never watched an episode.

Christine: Me either.

Becky: 'You can still watch it and catch up. It's never too late to become a fan!'

Andrea: True! It's really quite good!

Jodi: It is really good! I like the musical…

Becky: Yeah, he made me watch that one…

Christine: Yeah, Chapters on Whyte is a store full of Buffy maniacs.

Andrea: Yeah.

Becky: Oh my God.

Jodi: Like I think it's a really good show, but two of my friends especially are so hardcore about it and I've watched every episode of the first 3 seasons I swear to God like maybe in the past week… and then you'll be over there one night and they'll start randomly in the middle and you'll get in trouble for talking…[Laughter.] It's just ridiculous! Absolutely ridiculous!

Christine: Um, yeah, I think it's true that we're getting a lot more of the, um… I think what often happens is one publisher will have a success with one book, and suddenly everybody sees a market for it and all jump on the bandwagon. And, then it sort of hits a saturation point.

Jodi: Yeah, I was reading something about how, like, people are, like, literary people are called copycats and that kind of stuff and I'm like, 'You know what, it sells, and everybody wants to read it!'

Christine: Yeah.

Becky: That's like television too. One sitcom format like Friends works and—

Christine: Yeah. And I think in kids books especially, that's where they really like to—to do a lot of that. But it's interesting because, I think, and I think Harry Potter is a huge factor in, while there's—there are more, you know, 'cause yeah there's Buffy books for teens and there's, you know, every, pretty much every TV show or movie that might be interesting to kids or teens will have a line of books tied in with it. And… But it's interesting because at the same time I see so much more available outside of that, like it's—it isn't taking over.

Andrea: Do you think it's just interest in the genre, maybe? Like, they think well, if you like this then maybe you'd like to try these other books…

Christine: I really often—like, I'm not really wild about the TV tie-in stuff for kids. Like, you know. There's so much better stuff out there. But whenever somebody comes in and says 'Oh, you know, my son is 11 and he doesn't like to read and I wanna make him read,' you know—

Jodi: Yeah, I think that's a good opportunity to get kids to start reading.

Christine: That's—I always ask, yes, 'What movies and TV does he like? Here, get the tie-in.'

Jodi: It operates as a [co-product?] then.

Christine: Yeah, and it is a really good way to introduce reluctant readers, um, and very often they'll move on to, you know like I mean I remember when I was in—I was probably ten, eleven, twelve, I was completely addicted to—Harlequin used to have a series of teen books, um, Silhouette romances for teens that—I read every one that ever came out.

Jodi: I was obsessed with Nancy Drew. Absolutely. […]

Becky: [Something about teen romances as introduction to older romances…]

Christine: Exactly. Then you'd you know be in the bookstore looking for those and you'd see something else!

Becky: It's so shocking too, like when you're twelve and you're reading you know […]

Jodi: I don't remember…I used to read so much when I first started reading…

Christine: Yeah. So I know a lot of parents really try and get their kids out of that. And I always say 'They're reading something. Just let it go.' They'll grow out of it.

Jodi: Well I think, like, chronicle and series books are so good when you're a kid.

Christine: Yup.

Jodi: 'Cause if you see those—like, Chronicles of Narnia, I'm sure I've read that kind of stuff, like, eight times. Ugh. Um, oh I was going to ask you one other question, just to go back. Um, you get these, um, publisher clients for promotions, but what about things like, um, like the Globe and Mail Bestsellers that you can offer at 40% off all the time, like is that because of a volume?

Christine: Yeah, we actually do our own Bestseller list. We don't use the ones out of the—like I know Audrey's books does, on the Globe and Mail Bestsellers. But they compile ours as a chain, and, um...

Jodi: Right.

Christine: So they're specific to our stores.

Jodi: OK.

Christine: But, um, I think again, they're kind of a hook. You know. They're looking for something that'll draw you in. You know? 40 titles—'cause we do 10—10 Hardcover Fiction, Hardcover Non, Trade Fiction, Trade Non, and, uh, and so I think, yeah, and we sell them at 30% off and so you know we're, we're not going at or below cost. Like I know Costco and places like that—the prices they sell their books at, unless they're getting a way better deal than we are—they're selling at cost. And it's, you know, it's all about luring you in to buy their groceries or buy their whatever else, so, those ones we sell kind of on a mostly-break-even basis.

Jodi: OK.

Christine: Just to, um, you know, have a valued offering of, yeah, the newest and… I don't know actually if sometimes they, um, I don't think that they ever get a special deal from the publishers. Not that I've ever heard of…or seen on the invoices. [Laughs.]

Jodi: Yeah.

Christine: But, um, yeah… But yeah, and talking about co-op, like you're saying you've seen tables for certain promotions and stuff, but we also—there's also co-op dollars attached to even, like, things that you see on, featured on end caps, like the flat walls at the end of the section, most of the time those are sent down to us: 'These are the books that should go on there.' And the publishers pay…

Jodi: Like Oprah's Book Club and that kind of stuff.

Christine: Yeah. And it could be anything, like, you know and they're in every category of the store. So we'll have a, you know, a New Age end cap up with a couple of the newest New Age books.

Andrea: They have a lot of those.

Christine: And they'll pay us. I don't know—I don't think it's a huge amount. But, uh—

Jodi: But still a premium amount.

Christine: Yeah, they pay a premium to get that placement. And often, like, the things on tables as well. Anything that features, um, I'd say probably about half of it is stuff that comes with co-op dollars attached, and the rest are just things that, you know, new and hot that we think if we put it on a table it will do well.

Jodi: OK.